Lotus Elan

Hub and Spinner Direction: Mystery and Controversy

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:30 pm

The topic of the direction of the knock off hubs on the Elan has been discussed on the Forum at length.

The Lotus orientation of left-handed threads on the left and right-handed threads on the right, I thought was a settled issue. This orientation is how my car (with standard - non-26r hubs) certainly came from the factory.

But, a fellow (maybe a Forum member?) today has posted on Facebook a copy of a what appears to be an official Lotus document: "Handling and Maintenance Notes for the Racing Version of the Lotus Elan S.2"

In this April 1965 "Lotus Components Racing Division" document, it states: "The left hand threaded hubs should be on the right Hand side of the car." Opposite to what I thought was common and settled wisdom!!!

So, now what to believe? Is the 26r different? If so, I have my 26r hubs (now as standard) wrong way round. Or is this seemingly official factory document wrong?

Also, note the comments on keeping the threads dry but lubricating the knock-off/wheel interface.

Here is the cover sheet for the document and the particular page referring to the Wheels and Hubs:

26r-cover.jpg and

26r-wheels-page.jpg and


Again, thanks to the original poster on Facebook whom I acknowledge in reposting the above images.
'69 Elan S4
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
User avatar
1owner69Elan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 474
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: California

PostPost by: billwill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:18 am

I think it probable that the requirement of the spinner differ between race track application and normal road driving.

Much more braking on the track ??
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4457
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:33 am

But, also more hp and torque with racing 26r’s with lots of acceleration.
'69 Elan S4
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
User avatar
1owner69Elan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 474
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: California

PostPost by: Davidb » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:43 am

Interesting! I just dug out my copies of the S1 and S2 "Handling and Maintenance Notes for Racing Version of Lotus Elan" and they both show the l/h threaded hubs on the r/h side! Well, I ain't changing mine! I have no problem and always remember reading that they should "tighten towards the front" and that is what I have always done. I have never had a wheel come loose-on road or track soft or very rough surface. Of course, I haven't tried it the other way...
'65 S2 4844
Davidb
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 707
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPost by: nmauduit » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:32 am

1owner69Elan wrote:But, a fellow (maybe a Forum member?) today has posted on Facebook a copy of a what appears to be an official Lotus document: "Handling and Maintenance Notes for the Racing Version of the Lotus Elan S.2"

In this April 1965 "Lotus Components Racing Division" document, it states:


The FIA https://historicdb.fia.com/car/lotus-elan has put online an 18 page document a while back containing that section

https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/defaul ... -_1964.pdf
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 986
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: billwill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:45 am

1owner69Elan wrote:But, also more hp and torque with racing 26r’s with lots of acceleration.


That's possibly the more likely cause of them loosening if mounted in the road driving manner., rather than the braking forces.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4457
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:10 am

billwill wrote:
1owner69Elan wrote:But, also more hp and torque with racing 26r’s with lots of acceleration.


That's possibly the more likely cause of them loosening if mounted in the road driving manner., rather than the braking forces.


The direction of tightening relates to how the weight of the car rests on the taper and thus the reverse installation with the male cone on the Lotus centre lock nuts compared with the female cone on the Rudge style centre lock nuts. I have attached a couple of pages from the book "Colin Chapman Lotus Engineering - Theories, designs & Applications" by Hugh Haskell.

Note the book says on page 68 (the second attachment) "To start with, even among Chapmans design team this phenomenon was not understood..." Perhaps the confusion in the early documentation comes from this ?

img_20180909_0002.jpg and


img_20180909_0004.jpg and


regards
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 6852
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:50 am

Thanks very much Rohan (as always).

I was aware of Chapman’s explanation but had not yet seen the page you attached. Very helpful.

Also, the bit about Chapman’s design engineers also being unclear on the concept perhaps explains the discrepancy of the early 26R documentation.

It serves to reinforce respect for Chapman’s engineering prowess.

It also means I don’t need to switch my 26R hubs around. Whew!!
'69 Elan S4
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
User avatar
1owner69Elan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 474
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: California

PostPost by: Davidb » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:34 am

Thanks Rohan-I am happy about that! :)
'65 S2 4844
Davidb
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 707
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:16 am

During a visit to New Zealand i was at the Southwards Open day were there were several visitors Elans in the grounds. I noticed the a +2S there had the Spinners fitted on the wrong sides so i had a chat with the owner. He told me he had rebuilt the +2S and i said you have fitted the Spinners/Hubs on the wrong sides. He just gave me a blank look as if i was talking a load of **ap :? :? I suggested he looked at the other Elans at the Show to back up what i said but he didn't want to know :? Strange because the Hubs are colour coded with Red or Green paint :o
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1604
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:09 pm

TTR confirms that the thread orientation is right hand thread: right side / left hand thread: left side.

No difference between 26R and regular Elan hubs/spinners.

TT says never had a wheel loosen in 16 years of racing a 26R. But, scrupulous about cleanliness (no paint, no dirt) on mating surfaces and threads.

(Also, no safety wiring).
'69 Elan S4
Street 181 BHP
Original owner
User avatar
1owner69Elan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 474
Joined: 16 Jun 2015
Location: California

PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:18 pm

yes seat them correctly and hammer them up tight with a heavy lead hammer as originally supplied by Lotus and your good to go. Check after each race until your convinced they do not loosen and then keep checking them before and after each race because a good racer leaves nothing to chance :lol:

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 6852
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: Elanconvert » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:55 pm

i was going to raise this topic sometime, as I have wondered why my elite wheel spinners are opposite direction to my s4 elan........not sure about the explanation kindly posted by rohan from the book [can't read some of it ....]
:D fred :D
'Never give up!....unless it's hopeless.....'

1970 S4 dhc big valve
1973 Ginetta G15
1967 Ginetta G4 [sadly now sold]
1959 lotus elite type 14
Elanconvert
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 425
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Location: Sunny Devon, United Kingdom

PostPost by: Davidb » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:10 pm

rgh0 wrote:yes seat them correctly and hammer them up tight with a heavy lead hammer as originally supplied by Lotus and your good to go. Check after each race until your convinced they do not loosen and then keep checking them before and after each race because a good racer leaves nothing to chance :lol:

cheers
Rohan


When I raced a 26R I used a lead hammer and pretty soon the knock offs looked rather 'worn'. Now I use a hide hammer that I hold on the knock off and then I pound that with a 'dead blow' hammer. I throw the two hammers behind the drivers seat for future use.
img_0385.jpg and


Of course, this is for the aluminium knock offs.
'65 S2 4844
Davidb
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 707
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:47 am

Elanconvert wrote:i was going to raise this topic sometime, as I have wondered why my elite wheel spinners are opposite direction to my s4 elan........not sure about the explanation kindly posted by rohan from the book [can't read some of it ....]
:D fred :D


You need to download the pictures and then expand them in a picture viewer to easily read them.

However the essence is that the elite has conventional Rudge style wire wheel knock on where the spinner has a female cone connecting with a matching male cone on the wheel. The Elan is the reverse with a male cone on the spinner and a matching female cone on the wheel.

The result is this that the weight of the Elite rests on the top of the wheel male cone where as with the Elan the weight of the car rests on the bottom of the wheel female cone. This difference drives the difference on handing on each side of the car.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 6852
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests