Lotus Elan

front hub cotters

PostPost by: baileyman » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:38 pm

Does any one else have trouble lining up the hole in the hub for the cotter pin to enter, with the gap in the castle nut, with the hole in the stub axle?

I have an identical difficulty on both sides, and the positioning of things like the disk to the face of the upright seem the same, yet the provision of the hole etc. seems to imply that these things should be bang on right with no wiggle room.

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PostPost by: miked » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:33 pm

If you are referring to the nut not travelling far enough on, it could be that the fixed part of the race for one of the bearings is not fully home. I followed on a restoration and had this problem on one side. It was the inner bearing fixed race. When driven home all was normal. Or is your split pin too big?
Are you putting a curve in the pin too start it.

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PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:00 pm

Holes drilled in the hub for cotter pin insertion, would have been drilled by a previous owner, rather than std factory. So no guarantees if the hubs have subsequently been apart, that they would continue to line up.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:27 am

Have you fitted new felt seals which have a metal disk glued to them. If so this will touch the back of the Hub and prevent correct assembly :wink:
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:43 am

alan.barker wrote:Have you fitted new felt seals which have a metal disk glued to them. If so this will touch the back of the Hub and prevent correct assembly :wink:
Alan


When I had that problem I combined the new felt with old metal casing.
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:56 am

As said above the hole in the hub is misleading and should be ignored.

You need to bend the cotter pin to get it in and straighten as it goes in. Then secure by splitting the tabs at the end.

Very fiddly so don’t use one that is too long or to thick.

At least you can rest in the knowledge that this job has been a a pitas for thousands of Triumph owners too.
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PostPost by: miked » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 am

Sorry, thought you were talking about hole in hub shaft. Not seen that bodge of drilling hub through the threads. :shock: All for the sake of putting a curve on your pin.
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PostPost by: baileyman » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:43 pm

These are TTR 26R parts, bronze-alu hubs, beefed up stub axle, solid upright, large disks. The bronze hub has the access hole previously drilled. Everything bolts up nicely (though the felt seal is loose and rattles around--currently snugged up with a few wraps of teflon plumbing tape, which fix I am unsure of). The inner surface of the brake disk is co-planer with the face of the upright, on both sides, and centers in the calipers, so I think things are pretty right. Yet the hub access hole is inboard of the castle nut, and the castle nut does not reveal the full cotter hole at 5 ft-lbs minus one flat adjustment.

The temptation is to enlarge the cotter hole in the axle and reposition the hub access hole, though a curved cotter would be able to enter an enlarged cotter hole in the axle without using the hub access hole.

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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:48 pm

I have the same configuration you are talking about, TTR 26r hubs.

Couple of observations:

1. Various versions of the castellated nuts (original, replacements) have different levels of cut. The newer ones can be shallow compared to where the holes in the shaft are. An easy fix is to simply deepen the cut in the castellated nut to allow the shaft hole to be fully exposed. Should not take much. But, your problem may possibly be the one below.

2. Ensure that you have the hubs installed correctly. The inner and outer bearings are installed differently on the TTR 26r hubs than on the stock hubs (or apparently other 26r hubs). TTR failed to supply me with instructions, so I initially had them installed incorrectly. It is the outer bearing that is inserted from the inside and secured by a circlip - completely different from the stock hubs. If this isn't done properly the whole hub may not seat far enough in to allow the castellated shaft nut to be screwed down enough to fully expose the shaft holes. Also, the hub holes allowing the introduction of the cotter pin from the side will not line up either. This happened to me. As well as having the outer bearing shift during driving and loosening the hub. Fortunately, I got this corrected before much damage occurred. (I also found the OD of the original D washers was too big to fit inside the TTR 26r hubs. Initially had to grind the original ones down to be able to use them until TTR supplied some new ones that fit - smaller OD.)

Once I sorted out these issues things lined up: Hole in the hub, holes in the shaft, castellated nut groove.

Sorry for the out of focus shots, only ones I have of the situation:

img_0448-1.jpg and


img_0449.jpg and


BTW:

Two other points:

1. I used a dial indicator to set the end float. Precise. Never quite comfortable with other methods of tightening and then backing off.
2. I created an interference fit rubber disk to press into the end of the 26r hub to protect against dirt/moisture entering the outer bearing. There is no dust cap (that I am aware) for the 26r hubs.

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:56 am

Not sure what thread size the stub axle is on an Elan but these things could be handy for obtaining precise bearing adjustment:

https://www.burtonpower.com/split-stub- ... mp336.html

Even the standard Ford fitment has 8 positions for adjustment rather than just 6.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stub-Axle-F ... 0482055425
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:29 am

baileyman wrote:These are TTR 26R parts, bronze-alu hubs, beefed up stub axle, solid upright, large disks. The bronze hub has the access hole previously drilled.

John


I stand corrected.

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PostPost by: baileyman » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:45 pm

1owner69Elan wrote:I have the same configuration you are talking about, TTR 26r hubs.

Couple of observations:

1. Various versions of the castellated nuts (original, replacements) have different levels of cut. ...

2. Ensure that you have the hubs installed correctly. ...

...

BTW:

Two other points:

1. I used a dial indicator to set the end float. Precise. Never quite comfortable with other methods of tightening and then backing off.
2. I created an interference fit rubber disk to press into the end of the 26r hub to protect against dirt/moisture entering the outer bearing. There is no dust cap (that I am aware) for the 26r hubs.

HTH


Thanks much, very helpful.

The path my cotter takes is through the hole in the hub, which is a bit too far inboard, heading outboard through the castellated nut, which needs to seat a little further inboard to line up with the hole in the axle, and then heading inboard through the axle, and then outboard again through the nut. Enlarging the castellations would solve part of that easily.

Here is a pic of my bearings, which seem seated to the inner ridge and the outer circlip. The alignment of the brake disk looks centered in the caliper on trial fit.

hub-bearings.jpg and


I am sure I can add a hub access hole to match, and adjust the castellated nuts, but I am reluctant to cut on them.

The dial indicator will be used on final install for sure. I think there is in fact a dust cap available for these hubs, but I anticipate using a disk of closed cell rubber foam for now. I too had a misfit of the D-washers. The D flat needed to be relieved by filing, then everything slipped together. One remaining issue is the felt seal is smaller than the relief at the inboard end of the bronze hub, so it rattle around. I have wrapped it with teflon tape, but I think I may need to ping the ring outward so that it grabs, if possible.

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PostPost by: baileyman » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:20 pm

Okay, I think I got it sorted.

TTR sent a note saying the alignment of the holes for the cotter pin often do not line up. Left side nut and axle were good. Turning down the base of the RH castle nut a bit brought the holes there into alignment. Thanks to all.

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