Lotus Elan

Alternative to torque wrench

PostPost by: ricarbo » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:31 am

Having just bought one of Sarto's wheel spinner tools, I needed a new torque wrench as both my old ones only go up to 150 ft/lbs, but the wheels need more than that, apparently. I couldn't find anything for less than about £150. Then I spotted that Machine Mart sell a digital torque adapter for £41.99 and a 900mm breaker bar for £23.98, so that's £65.97, for both. As I had bought things from them before, I was on their mailing list and they sent me one of their periodical discount vouchers, so i was able to get both for £54.97. The torque adaptor has a range of 22 to 265 ft/lbs and beeps when you hit your preset target.
I struggle to pull my old wrenches smoothly at high settings, so am pleased to get get a long breaker bar, being one piece it's definitely less hazardous than using several half inch extension bars pushed one on the end of another as they get a bit too floppy/bendy and can fly apart when you really start pulling.
Pretty good value, I thought.
regards
Richard
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:22 am

Sounds pretty good & I assume that your new thingamyjig will work for LH as well as RH threads.

I have to admit that I'm rather sceptical about its accuracy when I think of the massive torque range that it is claimed to cover; does it come with some sort of certification?

How about posting a picture of your new toy for us all to enjoy please.

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PostPost by: jimj » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:28 am

Or......use a long bar with a socket on the end and if you weigh 200lbs mark the bar 1` from the centre of the socket and stand on it there. Calibrate your actual weight versus distance accordingly.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:36 pm

Who's your favourite character Jim; Barney Rubble or Fred Flintstone? :lol:
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PostPost by: ricarbo » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:09 pm

I haven't taken a photo, but here, I hope, is a link to their catalogue page

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ue+adaptor

Accuracy claimed is 1%, which must be better than I need. It came with a test certificate from inspector Hui Zhong! This showed it tested at three different torques, both clockwise and anticlockwise. Worst test figures were errors of 0.8 Nm at 72 Nm (1.11%) and 0.5Nm at 360Nm (0.14%). Since I am suspicious of neatly typed certificates (hand written looks more convincingly truthful), I opened the box of another one in the shop. All the figures were different, as was the inspector's name, so maybe it's honest.

I don't weigh 200 lbs nor do I think I could apply any weight exactly at any distance accurately, so I think I'll stick to using a torque wrench!

It works in both directions and I tested it against my other torque wrenches by connecting them together. One gave the same reading so far as I could judge, but the other read 5% low.

Yes, it's electronic and Chinese, so I suppose it may not last. Guaranteed for 12 months. I thought the instructions could be better

regards

Richard
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PostPost by: jimj » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:47 pm

I was making a serious point as if you don`t weigh 200lbs it`s very difficult to exert that weight, especially downwards with nothing to brace against, which is why torque wrenches are longer than an ordinary socket wrench. I weigh 158lbs and to generate 200lb/ft on my torque wrench on the spinner adaptor I do stand on it about 15" along.
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:51 pm

The accepted method for spinner removal is a lead hammer. Lotus for some reason posts in their manuals a torque setting of 200 to 220 ft/lbs and Lotus is the only car company and I mean the ONLY one that does. To be in that safety range would be a good guess with some experience using a hammer.
There is a method to determining torque by using the length of a bar and the weight applied to determine a torque setting. To do that, you need to have a knockoff tool like mine or similar, where you can apply leverage to a breaker bar. My tool has a socket where a breaker bar can be attached or better yet, a torque wrench can be used.
I position my torque wrench at an angle so I'm pushing down and bounce on it until I hear the click. Getting that feel for the force it takes, I can then use a breaker bar from memory. If you don't have a torque wrench, borrow one to get that memory of the force it take you at any weight. My wife would have to stand on it and jump.
Lowe's, for you in the USA, now supply a 50 to 250, reversible, ratcheted and torques in both directions for $59.99 USD that does a great job under warranty. It is pictured on my web site. I no linger offer it as you can pick one up at any of their stores with no shipping cost.

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PostPost by: Bud English » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:02 pm

mac5777 wrote:...pushing down and bounce on it until I hear the click.


Bouncing in it will indeed make it click, but may or may not apply the correct torque to the fastener.
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:49 pm

Bud, you are correct. I use an even slow force until I hear the click. I've been told, when using a torque wrench, we should not apply any more force after the click as it could damage the torque wrench. If I'm removing the spinner, knowing it takes more force to loosen it, I dial up wrench to max setting to break them loose.
I do have a 24 inch breaker bar that I got from Harbor Freight for $6.99 to break the spinner loose rather than screwing around with the torque settings on each wheel. Lowe's has a 50 to 250 Torque wrench for $59.99 that does the job and torques in both directions with a case and warranty.

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PostPost by: frearther » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:03 pm

GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:Who's your favourite character Jim; Barney Rubble or Fred Flintstone? :lol:

Well, let's consider:
(1) Calculating torque with a given load at a distance, or
(2) relying on an implied measurement from an instrument made by a person earning subsistence wages who is working in a substandard facility with inhuman working conditions?

NOT a political harangue - just a consideration.

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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:20 am

The basics physics solution of a cantilever of a given length with a known applied load is indisputably the most accurate & simplest method of applying an accurate torque loading on any fastener; I don't dispute that fact.
Nevertheless I do dispute the practicality of the reality.
An adapter has to be placed on the eared spinner (or octagonal nut spinner) onto that a suitable the needed hexagon socket & then the required cantilever, in this case a "breaker bar" is attached on which the operator stands on with both feet at a given distance from the centre of the spinner, thus applying the correct load to the bar & subsequently torque to the spinner.
Theoretically perfect but seriously flawed considering that the average shoe is let's say 80mm wide & a pair of them must stand on that cantilever but where to get them to apply the load at the given distance?
Assuming that difficulty is overcome I ask myself how a person can actually stand on said cantilever without falling over or without that cantilever falling off the spinner.

OK the theory works but I'd love to see a photo of someone actually doing that balancing act; I don't think it is as simple as it has been made out to be.

Cheers
John

P.S. IMO the subsistence wage earner who may have made the cheap torque wrench is a political argument that bears little relevance to this & should be discussed in another forum if members wish to discuss how an ideal World should be.
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PostPost by: jimj » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:33 am

Personally, I use common sense, and stand on the torque wrench with one foot as described. It`s easy to balance for the moments it takes. It works for me so I`m happy.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:38 am

jimj wrote:Personally, I use common sense, and stand on the torque wrench with one foot as described. It`s easy to balance for the moments it takes. It works for me so I`m happy.
Jim



OK :wink:
John
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PostPost by: pharriso » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:26 am

Sarto was selling the Lowes 50- 250lbft torque wrench himself... but I see that he just recommends it now.
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PostPost by: ricarbo » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:40 am

If you put a loop of rope onto your lever, you could hold it in your preferred position by putting a jubilee clip each side of the rope. Then you could put your foot or feet or other weight in the rope loop and achieve good accuracy, provided the lever was actually horizontal at the finish. Like John, I think if I did it, I'd have difficulty.
Pity we can't get Lowe's prices in the UK. $60 is £37.79!!!
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