Europa Twin Cam buying advice

[stuartgb100]

A friend has asked what he should pay for a Europa in the stages of restoration.
He has been offered one, but no price has been mentioned yet.

Where's the best place to get that info, please?

Thanks,
Stuart.

[twincamman]

I paid 4500 for Mine a seized Renault motor ...I prefer the Renault for the light engine transaxle combination . The tc added weight creates a bit of a handling problem in my opinion for the added 10 HP . HOWEVER In the TC defence parts aare. More readily available .an uncompleted project with a sound chassis should go for around 3500 CDN dollars ....I had bent wheels so 1000 for mags 500 for tires 500 for gaskets rings assorted bits for the motor freshen mine needed.....the barrels are unobtainable for the r16 motor now . A great. CAr for handling. But hot hot hot in the summer and high maintanience like a race car I added a 40 dcoe and headers to match the power gain of the TC . Rebuild done by myself is around that ...ed

[twincamman]

When you get the. CAr under no circumstances attempt to turn the motor with a wrench on the cam nut ....push the car to move the motor to the position you want it in Ed

[types26/36]

Stuart,
Like an Elan I think it will depend on which model he is looking at, an S1/S2/TC OR TCS and the condition/parts missing/paper work etc.etc.
I think a few of these classic car magazines often have a section with a price guide related to model and condition.
Maybe he could go and browse those publications at his local news agents
Another idea may be to browse the classified ads on the pistonhead forum to see the prices people are wanting for running cars.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/ ... tus/europa

[twincamman]

I understtod he had a car in mind that was under reconstructioon with aTC IT IS STILL NOT WORTH MORE THAN 3 OR 4 THOUSAND AS THEY ARE NOT A SOUGHT AFTER MODEL the tc is modified to run the alternator and water pump a tthe rear so to convert the cam shaft and valve cover etc will be pricey ...4500 tops or walk and I guarantee if you have left your phone number he will call within 3 days

[types26/36]

aTC IT IS STILL NOT WORTH MORE THAN 3 OR 4 THOUSAND AS THEY ARE NOT A SOUGHT AFTER MODEL

Maybe not in in your part of the world but I sold my TCS for ?10500 about four or five years ago although it was a running car with no major problems.

[twincamman]

ill sell you mine for 8500

[types26/36]

ill sell you mine for 8500

No thanks.....I previously had an S2 with that French "sawing machine" engine .....give me a TC anytime

[stugilmour]

Stuart, just confirming you are located in the UK? Should help a bit with ascribing a value for the project.

I would throw out an interesting data point in the US for a fully running and very nice older restoration numbered JPS TC five speed, enthusiast owned, etc. Only real issue I could see was cracking of the dash finish. Basically this ask sets max value for the model over here. The car did not sell on eBay I think three times, even after being exposed on Bring a Trailer (BaT). BIN was I think $32,500, which most commenter's saw as 'all the money' for the model. One of the listings did show the seller received several offers. Here is a link to one of the listings, showing bidding up to about $20K (below reserve). You may have to log in to eBay for the completed auction link to work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/74-Lotus-Europa ... 7675.l2557

http://bringatrailer.com/2013/11/20/197 ... l-edition/

I tend to agree with Ed on the real values of the Europa over here, although they seemed to be coming up less frequently this year. There are presently 12 sold cars showing on eBay, and some pretty nice TC examples at $15K to $20K. Suggest doing a search on eBay UK to get an idea.

Basket case & projects say $3K to $8K.

When I was looking at Europa's in more detail about two years ago, the benchmark high price I saw for an absolutely gorgeous JPS TC five speed was about $26K. As an aside, I sat in a friend's JPS TC, and went Esprit instead! Unfortunately I simply could not fit comfortably, as my legs rubbed on the wheel and the pedal box is a bit narrow. Esprit is perfect!

Another excellent source of rough valuation is Hagerty. Not sure if it will come up for you with the link, but use the model and year search and you get a graph of values for about five years. I think the tool works pretty well, but if not a common model it can be open to question. Their Condition 1 line looks pretty generous to me, but then again there are very few Condition 1 cars in the sample I am sure.

http://www.hagerty.ca/valuationtools/HV ... vc=1330902

You may have to create an ID for the tool to work; I think they let you look up a few cars before you have to create one. Use Condition 4 and below for a project, and select the correct year and model. They don't spam you for having an ID set up.

Sorry, not sure if this is applicable to the UK, but don't we see Elan prices about 10% to 20% higher in the UK? Might have narrowed a bit over this year though.

HTH

Stu

[twincamman]

Brian ..I find the Renault motor an absolute delight and equate it to an Alpha engine for finish and machining ...aside from the silly idle sound ...I added a 40 dcoe and headers ..gutted the Decelier distributor keeping the advance springs and replaced the points, condenser and plates with Bosh bits from an old 009 vW DISRIBUTOR I had kicking around,,,, added a delco alternator and a nissan denso starter added alloys and good tires .the car now starts well and puts out the equivilent H P of a TC and handles weil as the lumpin the back is only 250 pounds far less than the TC iron piece and wont upset the balance of the chassis and aside from the 4]4 time of the idle its a reliable or as reliable as a Brit car can be ...love it . rump derump derump so French....ed

[UAB807F]

A friend has asked what he should pay for a Europa in the stages of restoration.
He has been offered one, but no price has been mentioned yet.

Where's the best place to get that info, please?

Thanks,
Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

To some extent it depends where you are, the UK and US have differing views on the values of these cars. I'd point you to the Europa forum if you are in the US (http://www.lotuseuropa.org/LotusForum/index.php )
because a lot of the guys are US based.

In the UK it depends very much on the condition, how complete the car is & the model. The TC & the TC Special are more popular here in the UK with a notable difference in values of finished cars. Richard Banks is probably the best UK supplier for these cars, but even so some parts just aren't available new.

Brian

[stuartgb100]

Many thanks all for the replies.

Apologies, it's here in the UK.

I've already asked for more information, and will post back later to see if anyone can offer further help.

Stuart.

[rgh0]

Brian ..I find the Renault motor an absolute delight and equate it to an Alpha engine for finish and machining ...aside from the silly idle sound ...I added a 40 dcoe and headers ..gutted the Decelier distributor keeping the advance springs and replaced the points, condenser and plates with Bosh bits from an old 009 vW DISRIBUTOR I had kicking around,,,, added a delco alternator and a nissan denso starter added alloys and good tires .the car now starts well and puts out the equivilent H P of a TC and handles weil as the lumpin the back is only 250 pounds far less than the TC iron piece and wont upset the balance of the chassis and aside from the 4]4 time of the idle its a reliable or as reliable as a Brit car can be ...love it . rump derump derump so French....ed

In Australia most of the Renault Europas have been fitted with the later cross flow head from the Renault 16 which was sold here in big numbers and fitted with twin Webers. Modified to Gordini specs as used in the Alpine A110's they are good for 160 hp plus out of 1600 cc at 7000 rpm and a lot cheaper to build than a twin cam for this sort of power. The head combustion chamber and porting is probably better than a twin cams and big bore versions can be done to take you over 1700 cc. A number of them raced in the historic sports car class I compete in and they held the lap record for the under 2 litre class on most circuits. After a few years they decide to ban the cross flow head which made the cars uncompetitive. A friend who successfully raced a cross flow Renault Europa for a number of years has just built up a twin cam Europa to see if he can match the performance of his previous car

As for what there worth ??? It really all depends on condition but building a top class example will cost you as much as it does with an Elan and a basket case costs around the same so there really should not be much difference in value to an Elan for the Renault or Twin Cam versions.

The beauty of the Renault engine is that it was designed to have its nose against the firewall in front engine cars so it is easy to live with it turned around in the mid-engine Europa. The twin cam is much more of a pain to live with in a Europa as access to the front is very restricted and the twin cam was not designed for this.

cheers
Rohan

[twincamman]

I have only ever seen one of the cross flow heads and the asking price turned me off , it was from a marine motor I was told ...Ed

[types26/36]

I had the crossflow head/engine on my S2, it comes from the Renault 16TS engine (1565cc) as opposed to the standard 1470 cc Renault 16 engine, the federal version Europa got the TS engine (1565CC) but not the crossflow head supposedly to bring back the power as the Federal version (Lotus type 65) had some power absorbing smog equipment.
Mine also had twin Delorto's, it dropped a valve and I had to source another head which was not that easy, one of the reasons I prefer TC engines.