Lotus Elan

Valuations

PostPost by: Robbie693 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:21 am

Just got my valuation back from Club Lotus and am a little disapointed...

I have heard that the current valuations are causing a little contention amongst some and, probably for this reason, there was an explanation included with the valuation form. It mentioned the usual disclaimer about 'vast sums of money invested in restoration and repairs do not reflect equally in enhanced values', which is fair enough, but it seems that since the demise of Graham Arnold, the valuations are a bit lower.

My reason for thinking this is that the valuation on my previous car was 7.5k yet that for my new car, which is in MUCH better condition, is only 1k more...

Another snipet from the enclosed explanation - "If a certain Lotus in running order with full MOT and looing ok, but certainly not concours, is worth 5000; spending 10,000 on a lot of cosmetic and mechanical work will actually make the car worth around 6,950, although it would sell much quicker, at that price. At 15,000 there would be no takers, or even enquiries."

Tell that to Paul Matty who sold one for 17,950 recently, apparently... I would think whoever bought that car would be a little shocked to know that, with a Club Lotus valuation, in the event of losing his car his insurance would only give him half what he paid for it. (I'm making an assumption here, just to make a point)

Anyway, rant over but my question is, can we use anyone else for valuations that would be accepted by insurance companies (I'm with Footman James)?

Has anyone else here felt undervalued? :?

Anyone else fancy a moan? No? I'll get my coat...
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:47 am

Hi,
I would think that most of the well known Lotus dealers would be recognised by the specialised insurance companies. Why not try someone like Paul Matty; people like him know exactly what prices the cars are currently selling for.
I had a Graham Arnold valuation done on my Elan and it matched exactly with the value suggested to me by a respected Lotus dealer. When however Paul Matty saw my car, he said he could sell it for 5K more!
I agree with the statement made; you cannot expect to get all the money back which you have invested in a restoration, possibly yes if the particular car is of historic interest.
At the end of the day you will still have a problem squeezing the agreed amount out of the insurance company. There was a case of this in a thread a couple of months ago.
Cheers
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PostPost by: steveww » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:08 pm

I have also noticed a drop in valuation value given by Club Lotus. Apparently my S4 is now worth £2k less than it was 3 years ago :shock: Even though I have fixed and replaced various bits. The Club Lotus valuations do not appear to match what the dealers are asking for Elans. Of course the dealers may not be getting what they are asking :roll:

Would someone like to give PM a call and see if they are happy to do valuations? Any one know if LDC do valuations?
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:33 pm

It just illustrates that whoever does the so called Club Lotus valuations hasn't got a clue.

If Paul Matty and inded others are selling cars in excess of £17,000 and restoration projects (often pretty derelict) are in the £3-5,000 region how can basically sound and respectable cars only be worth £7,000 or so - clueless say I :) This refers to 2-seat Elans. I think +2's are harder to value.


You would have to pay more than that to buy a decent MGB and lets face it the Elan is both far rarer and magnitudes higher in the desirability scale

Why not just go to an insurer who accepts a sensible owner valuation I have my own car with Firebond on that basis. I had to supply good photographs of the car and fill in a statement describing it for a realistic agreed value policy

I have always understood that insurance valuation is based on the figure you would need to spend to replace what you have with something of equivalent condition in the event of a total loss
John

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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:02 pm

I agree - I work for and have my car insured thru a broker scheme for classics with Norwich union. They ask for 6 photos of the car, ask for a description and put it to their valuation panel. I feel certain many insurers work this way so you don't actually need a club valuation - I got agreed value on my last sprint of £20K which I subsequently sold for just a few thousand less. The valuation assumes you would have to buy the car closest you can to the condition of the car you lost and then spend more to replace those non original or sub standard bits to get it up to the same standard of the car you lost.

Insurance is SUPPOSED to put you back in the same position you were prior to the claim. But we probably all know a few who have done very well out of an agreed value policy!!

As for values - they are definately on the up whether CL know it or not. If you look at what it costs just to replace a chassis and do a decent spray job these days you are looking at least £7K - I don't expect to get my money back on a rebuild but valuations must start to reflect the actual costs involved in these cars now. The parts are becoming rarer and dearer - labour rates are not going down, the cars themselves become rarer each time one is lost. There is a definate trend upwards - it seems to lag a little behind house price booms. Maybe not a good thing but perhaps we may see a return to the heady days when cars were being exported at £25K each???

Certainly drophead sprints seem to be selling privately for £12.5/£14K if a very good example. The same car is being sold by dealers for about £17K but with dealer support and guarantees which is fair enough. At the end of the day a car is only worth what someone will pay for it - no more no less.

Just my twopenneth!
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:07 pm

And pretty much spot-on :D
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:04 pm

Robbie,
Bear in mind that "Club" Lotus is a commercially run organisation run by one person for profit. This was the case when Graham Arnold was alive (he ran at least two other similar organisations at the same time) and after he died, his widow sold the business.

If their valuation is crap tell them that it is crap, then resign and join a real club, also tell your insurance folks what the situation is.

Cheers,

Pete.

Cheshire Lotus Owners Group.

Lotus Drivers Club.
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:18 am

Would someone like to give PM a call and see if they are happy to do valuations? Any one know if LDC do valuations?


Got a reply from the Paul Matty forum; they do do valuations for insurance. Haven't had chance to find out what they charge yet though - let you know when I do.
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:36 am

Good news, I got this reply about the cost of valuations done at Paul Matty:

PMSC makes a nominal charge of £10 and asks for the payment to be made out to Primrose Hospice a local charity.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:46 am

Hey Pete,
I think that's a superb gesture from PM, he also must know what our cars can be sold or bought for!

Robbie,
I presume it's handbags at dawn then :lol:

Cheers
John (Member LDC & CL) :)
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:28 pm

I presume it's handbags at dawn then


Looks like it John :D

I'll be down there as soon as the car is mobile again...
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PostPost by: wparslow » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:55 pm

I'm one of the guys that paid Paul Matty over 17 grand for a +2.

Wibble.
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PostPost by: tower of strength » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:18 pm

my rant is a little different; what is an S4 drop head needing the following worth? : its been in a barn for 15 years, the chassis is rotten (there is a spare, rusty, lotus replacement with it!. The body is crazed/cracked in the usual places, the engine and brakes are siezed.
Plus points are that the trim is good as are the wheels, the roof is splitting across the frame in a couple of places.

to turn this into a nice car will cost around £9K by my estimate. the owner wants £7K. I offered £3K

Theres a 5speed plus 2 on Ebay, original chassis, no Mot the guy wants £5k, it too needs painting and trim!! Where do these people get thier Idea of value from? Estate Agents?
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PostPost by: dougweall » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:32 pm

[quote="tower of strength"]
to turn this into a nice car will cost around £9K by my estimate. the owner wants £7K. I offered £3K

tower of strength,
I am with you on this one £9k is conservative of you from what you describe.
My S4 cost me in the region of £12k to complete and I got a new chassis and a load of other brand new bits, but the car needed a respray.

I am sure people think that they have something of real value when they see the valuations of complete cars.

Doug
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PostPost by: tower of strength » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:22 pm

Hi Doug,

I have been involved with the restoration/modification of several cars over the years, the cost of painting old Hethel plastic properly is terifying, just to remove the old paint from a +2 takes from 75 to 100 man hours
allowing £500 for consumables (thinners, tack rag, brushes, resin , glass matt, da discs, sand paper/wet n dry, polishes and cutting compounds, masking tape, filler, primer etc)£250 for 2litres of paint (basic colour) another 50 to 100 hours preping the shell for paint and polishing/finishing off, alowing £30 an hour labour you arent going to get a great deal of change from £6K plus vat add in paying for the stripping and refitting and a concours sprint for £17K becomes a bargain!! But for a plus 2? I can see the justification for £30K for a fully built Spyder Zetec, in Labour and material cost alone!!

A friend is having a 1970 Dodge Charger (ocean liner!!) restored bodily, the cost will be in the region of £16K with the new panels. He stripped the shell bare (except suspension) him self.

I'm sure some folk are sadly deluded at the realities of costs and time when "messing about" with these or any old cars!!

regards

Mark
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