Lotus Elan

Q plates

PostPost by: EPC 394J » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:35 am

As well as the above post. I’ve always been curious to know... How does a Spydercars zetech, count as the car that the fibreglass body shell, and nothing else (maybe not even that? How do you prove it?) is based upon?

To me. Why isn’t it just a kit car? A modern replica. Which is what it is?

I do apologise to our Spydercars fans, but it’s always made me wonder.
Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:52 am

AlanM has confirmed that there is no need to inform DVLA if you change your chassis, the replacement rules applied to other vehicles that have an “official chassis” are not relevant, therefore the change can be to a non original equipment chassis such as a Spyder Spaceframe. AlanM will no doubt confirm this if asked for assistance in the same way he advised me back in 2010/11

The list of changes for which you must inform DVLA are
Here https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ertificate
Here https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... ce-to-give
And here https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-detai ... -tell-dvla

If you modify an existing registered Elan to Spyder specifications or a hybrid home engineered alternative the only thing you need to report is the engine change, a change of colour, change of body style ( coupe to DHC).

If any of you have any concerns I would advise that you take up the offer of speaking to Alan Morgan directly, I’m not the expert on these things but I have been down the road successfully and without issue on more than one occasion.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:26 am

What's an 'official chassis' Alan?
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PostPost by: trw99 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:43 am

I thought a major point about this subject is that we should refer to it as a subframe, not a chassis.

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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:09 am

It doesn't matter what we refer to it as Tim. Lotus, in their workshop manuals, parts manuals and brochures, refer to it as a chassis.

A chassis is defined as the base frame of a car or other vehicle that supports the car in it's construction and use. The Elan chassis provides the attachment points for the front and rear suspension, the steering, the engine, gearbox and differential. The body attaches to it to add rigidity, as does any body on vehicles with separate chassis.I can't think what else a chassis can do!!!

Why it's so important to recognise it now is the change of emphasis from the authorities because of this bloomin historic vs modified taxation ruling. If an Elan is involved in a serous accident will the insurance company now just pay out, or look for reasons to not pay? Any change from non-standard to a classic car is going to be carefully scrutinised, and if that change hasn't been notified to the DVLA (notionally for historic vs modified taxation purposes). then it's pretty obvious what the outcome is going to be.

However, if Club Lotus is happy to put there assertion in writing that a change to a Spyder chassis doesn't require notification to DVLA, then obviously they will have worked out a deal with the DVLA, or they are happy to underwrite any insurance claim. Until then, or until Spyder put something similar in writing, then the need to notify looks to be very clear.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:58 am

I'm not sure i'm sold........ what worries me is the DVLA have taken some one at face value that the metal part under an elan is a disposable Subframe in the same way a Mini has a subframe..... Problem is Mini's don't have id numbers so there literally is no way of checking if it's been changed apart from if it's a stock design or not, i also suspect this space frame deal might have been done when the standard Lotus chassis was not available, so at that point in time it would have been fine to register the change in number but thats not the case today (assuming you can't declare the change retrospectively)

Without trying to offend, some one has told the DVLA the Elan Chassis/Subframe etc is a un-numbered disposable item like a mini's subframe, i get the Government would ask clubs advice but that club has to be straight with them and not look at the problem through rose tinted glasses to save any future embarrassment.

Just to confuse even more.....

Monocoque, a true monocoque body carries both tensile and compressive forces within the skin and can be recognised by the absence of a load-carrying internal frame.

Semi-monocoque, refers to a stressed shell structure that is similar to a true monocoque, but which derives at least some of its strength from conventional reinforcement.

Chassis, An example of a chassis is a vehicle frame, the underpart of a motor vehicle, on which the body is mounted; if the running gear such as wheels and transmission, and sometimes even the driver's seat, are included, then the assembly is described as a rolling chassis.

In my humble opinion an Elite is a true monocoque but an Elan?? well i'd say semi-monocoque at best.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:10 pm

I suggest that if anyone has any further questions that they take it up with Alan Morgan at Club Lotus.

I'm satisfied with his explanation of the matter.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:19 pm

Frankly don't you think it would be a good idea if Club Lotus puts the negotiated definition up in writing? Don't you want to see exactly how the DVLA defined the Lotus Elan? it would also help all those with Spyder chassis, they can put a copy in their documents for the time they sell the car on.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:40 pm

Please refer to my previous post, I'm taking a rest from this topic, I think I have done enough to try and help the community with this one.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:51 pm

Yes, he pop's up on a public forum, doesn't really explain why an individual Numbered Subframe/Chassis shouldn't be declared to the DVLA then takes it private for some reason instead of just ending this once and for all.

We know a factory to LR sub-frame/Chassis number change is fine with the DVLA so why is it such an issue if Club Lotus have an agreement in place?
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:29 pm

Had enough of the pedantry. I’m oot!
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PostPost by: persimmon » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:10 am

Would it be possible to buy a personal plate and re-register to get rid of the dreaded Q plate ?
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:05 am

elansprint71 wrote:There was a time when a new chassis was not available from Lotus and they chose Spyder as their authorised chassis repairer. Spyder also produced a part-tubular part sheet metal chassis along with the full tubular one at that time.

I would be very surprised if Lotus (Geely) actually make the galvanised LR replacement chassis themselves.


I think the original Spyder Chassis were reconditioned Lotus chassis with new leg etc and the tubular front x-member, I've got one on my +2 130/5.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:46 am

persimmon wrote:Would it be possible to buy a personal plate and re-register to get rid of the dreaded Q plate ?

It appears once you have a Q plate it's not reversible and you can't put a private plate on either.


It's why it's so important to know where the boundary lies.......
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PostPost by: Mick6186 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm

In my garage today leafing through the factory +2 workshop manual there's a whole section that refers to the 'chassis' as a 'chassis'. If Lotus said it was a chassis how has it changed to a subframe?
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