Lotus Elan

Not an Elan , just a Lotus 23b

PostPost by: diablo » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:12 am

A friend of mine is rebuilding a 23b , it is a very nice car , but he does not know if it is an original , a lotus recreation or a replica ( if it is a replica , it is a very beautiful one ; the welding of the chassis are very " professionnal " ) . This car has a british registration , but he has no V5 ; where should we find informations about this car ; where is the chassis number ? He hope to get a french registration and needs a maximum of informations about this 23b .
Thanks for your help .
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:34 am

Your first stop should be to make enquiries with the Historic Lotus Register.
I'm sure that the Type 23 registrar will be able to clear things up very quickly.

http://www.historiclotusregister.co.uk/

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PostPost by: elj221c » Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:57 am

You could also ask questions on the Lotus 23 group io.
https://groups.io/g/L23Registry/topics
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:03 am

the type 23 registrars are very prompt and helpful.

If it's the one that was for sale locally about 2.5 years ago purportedly on a NOS chassis (#108), chances are it's actually a Mamba chassis... you may look for instance on the bottom square tube between the seats a few cm behind the firewall; a photo of the back of the firewall (the part facing the front, so without the body) may also be of help - in any case Nick Adams should help clarify the situation swiftly.
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:47 pm

An original frame would be nickel-bronzed, not welded. If it is truly "professionally welded", it is more than likely to be a repro. Many 22 and 23 chassis were fabricated by Arch Motors and will then have a tiny little tag w/ an AM number in addition to the actual chassis tag. I also recommend contacting the HLR and talk to the 23 registrar.

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PostPost by: sprintsoft » Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:10 pm

Hi diablo,

Could you please post some photos?

It would really help with the identification.

Thanks
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PostPost by: diablo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:19 am

Thank you very much for these infos , we shall contact the companies you suggested . Is it by the DVLA that we can get infos with the registration number ? I shall go to my friend home and shoot some photos ; unfortunately he is not at ease with english language , so i have to help him ; but friends are here for that .
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PostPost by: 661 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:33 pm

In the UK the 23 registrar is Nick Adams.
I've PM'd his email.
I'd suggest you speak to him before going anywhere near the DVLA.
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PostPost by: derek uk » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:10 am

You can do some minor checks with the DVLA on line.
https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/? ... 1576749904
The first link will allow you to check when it was first registered and the second it's MOT status.
If it doesn't appear it has been off the road for a long time but that shouldn't discourage you.
As mentioned, register keepers are normally recognised by the DVLA and can negotiate on an owners part. Having an old tax disc can be useful as can old paperwork.

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PostPost by: pharriso » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:38 am

derek uk wrote:You can do some minor checks with the DVLA on line.
https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/
https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/? ... 1576749904
The first link will allow you to check when it was first registered and the second it's MOT status.
If it doesn't appear it has been off the road for a long time but that shouldn't discourage you.
As mentioned, register keepers are normally recognised by the DVLA and can negotiate on an owners part. Having an old tax disc can be useful as can old paperwork.

Derek UK


We're talking about a Lotus 23, very few are road registered! :roll:
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PostPost by: derek uk » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:48 am

The OP says it has a British registration, so just following up on that. I would imagine that a few of the Westfield replicas were road registered. If the OP is willing to post the reg number that may ring some bells or if it has been raced it may be in photos.

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PostPost by: diablo » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:59 am

Hello
Some photos to help ?
Cheers
Attachments
img_20191223_150550.jpg and
Tax disc with immat
img_20191219_155401.jpg and
Overall view
img_20191219_155034.jpg and
Engine
img_20191019_155143.jpg and
Chassis ID
img_20191019_155129.jpg and
Front susp
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PostPost by: derek uk » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:26 am

Q340CGY (Q plate indicates that it was built from parts of various cars and kit cars often had this prefix.)
AutoTrader check says
Lotus Other 1984
2 door saloon
Green and Yello
DVLA says
Lotus
Green
First reg August 1984
DVLA MOT site adds First reg 6th August 1984

The original Lotus 23b (23, 23b and 23c)was produced from 1962 to 1964 so this car was either registered 20 years later or is a replica, likely Westfield. The chassis does look to be in a very fresh condition. Westfields first car in 1982 was a Lotus 11 replica.

From Westfield-World site.
"Despite these initial issues, the Lotus 23 proved to be a popular, competitive and durable little race car. More than 130 Type 23's were produced in three versions; the standard 23, 23B and 23C. These vehicles continue today to be a mainstay of vintage racing in both Europe and the United States.

Early on in the 1980's a small group of enthusiasts began to remanufacture parts which made it possible to restore an original Lotus 23. These parts are now easily available and it was about this time that a Register was established for the Lotus 23. Today that Register is pat of the Historic Lotus Register of the UK.

Today there are several sources of replicas of Lotus 23 cars with the Xanthos 23 being the most accurate reproduction of the original car and using the same design and materials as the 1960s original. The Xanthos is powered by Lotus twincam and is still constructed by Xanthos Sports Cars in the traditional way near Bristol, UK. The Noble 23 was a Lotus 23 replica created by Lee Noble with a wider track than the original which allowed for true two seater use. This replica was very successful in racing and more than 60 cars were produced using either Lotus twincam or Renault V6 engines. This version continues to be produced, first by Auriga Design and now by Mamba Motorsport."

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PostPost by: Elanman39 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:34 am

Hi,

It's obviously hard to tell a lot from these pictures but I can make a few comments which may be of help to you and your friend.

1: I'm sorry but with the information you have provided I cannot confirm that this is a real Lotus 23 or 23B. Although it's clearly inspired by the 23 and uses some components such as the front wishbones and rear uprights which could have come from a 23, the chassis is not that of a 23 but is clearly something built to look a bit like a 23 .

2: The central take-off steering rack is interesting as it is a part adapted from a Standard Triumph rack specifically for use in a single seat race car. Clearly there is no need to modify a rack in that way for this application, so I would be tempted to conclude that it has been taken from a single seater car.

3: The engine has a Mk 2 Lotus twincam head but I have never heard of the tuner/builder.

4: It doesn't look like any of the 23 "tribute" cars I am aware of such as the Tiger, the Mamba or the Noble.

5: The British registration number starts with a "Q" which means it was first registered sometime after 1983 and that at that point the age of the vehicle was indeterminate. This is how most kit or self assembly cars were registered.

6: I suspect it's a one off home built affair which has used a number of components from an old single seat racecar. If I had to guess the the steering rack, rear uprights, front wishbones and some other parts coulds all have come from a Lotus Formula Ford; the high mounted pickups for the upper rear radius rods suggest maybe a Lotus 61.

I hope this is of help. Contrary to popular belief the Lotus 23 register is very happy to know about replica and tribute cars such as your friends and I would urge him to contact me directly or through yourself if he needs a translator to register the car with us. If he does so we will be able to help him with information, possibly parts and certainly the moral and physical help of other owners of similar cars. It doesn't even cost anything, although I would of course urge him (and anyone else interested) to subscribe to the HLR.

Best wishes, Nick Adams, Registrar, Lotus 23 Register, Historic Lotus Register

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Introduction - Information regarding inter alia cars, components, ownership or past usage provided in good faith in whole or in part by Historic Lotus Register Ltd (HLR) and its officers may have been collected from a variety of sources, some or all of which may not be complete, verified, verifiable or proven. HLR and its officers do not warranty the accuracy, completeness or originality that may implied by the information provided or the value of the information inferred by the recipient. Information regarding specific cars may be revealed at this time or at any time in the future which contradicts or raises doubts about authenticity or originality. Other cars claiming the same identity may exist or appear at some stage in the future on our records and HLR and its officers disclaim any liability arising from this information now or in the future.

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PostPost by: diablo » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:08 pm

Thank you very much to both of you ; it is now clear that the origin of the car is not ....clear .
My friend bought it in France ; I hope he didn't pay too much for this car , car which is nice .
Cheers
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