Lotus Elan

Plus 2 engines

PostPost by: Chrispy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:25 am

Chris wrote:Why the hell are people talking of fitting non standard engines into the poor old Elan? It is what it is, a 1960s classic
And should be cherished for what it is. I love mine just as it is, and have tried to Keep it as original as possible. If I wanted an MX5 or Honda In would buy one.


Not everyone can afford to rebuild or replace a grenaded Twincam...
Chris
Elan +2 #0245
Exige S2 Supercharged
Chrispy
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 209
Joined: 29 Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPost by: Bud English » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:45 pm

...and if I wanted an original, unmolested +2, I'd still have one. That's the beauty of ownership. You can have yours the way you want it and so can everyone else. Take heart, the more of us that modify ours, the more yours should be worth. To each his own. :lol:
Bud
1970 +2S Fed
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."-Douglas Adams
User avatar
Bud English
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 883
Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Location: Winnemucca, NV, USA

PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:13 am

pharriso wrote:
USA64 wrote:I have heard that the Ford Pinto engine is the same block as the Twincam except for the deck height. I'm not even sure what -deck height- means but Wiki has info on the Pinto engine with performance variants.


Totally different engines! The twin cam was based on the Kent engine, originally pre-crossflow, then cross-flow, designed in the UK with pushrods, capacity went from 1300 cc to 1600cc. The pinto engine is a larger US designed engine, 1600-2000cc SOHC & I was told when I worked at the Ford engine test labs in the UK that it started off as a diesel design so it was much heavier


Yes and no, for the first two years of production the Pinto was available with either the 1600 Kent or the two liter OHC.
Russ Newton
Elan +2S (1971)
Elite S2 (1962)
User avatar
CBUEB1771
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1644
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Boston, Massachusetts USA

PostPost by: Slowtus » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:27 am

Chris wrote:Why the hell are people talking of fitting non standard engines into the poor old Elan? It is what it is, a 1960s classic
And should be cherished for what it is. I love mine just as it is, and have tried to Keep it as original as possible. If I wanted an MX5 or Honda In would buy one.


I had a 1960s classic and I thought it a little slow so I stuffed this in... :shock:


frod.jpg and



Cherished it even more after that :D
Slowtus
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:23 am

It ain't speed it's character. Best fun is had in a car with a sweet sounding revvy engine with good handling and low traction limits. You quickly get bored with a certain level of acceleration and speed and want more!! High traction limits just mean when you have an accident or make a mistake it's likely to be really serious!
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 586
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: Slowtus » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:48 pm

'kay, my tongue was a bit in cheek there but to Chrispy's point - finding the bits and paying for the resurrection of a smithereened Twin Cam can be a long and expensive process so if you can find an alternative that works - fine by me, as long as it retains SOME of the character of the original.

My 1960s "classic" (1966 Cortina GT) had a Twin Cam in it when I bought it - the previous owner had stuffed a 1.8 Fiat Twin Cam in it, giving a bit more hp than the Lotus Cortinas I had owned and it had a 5 speed.

Just didn't quite have the 'bite' so I finally went with, again, a similar engine, 4 cylinders, twin cam, high revving and decent sounding, oh and 6 speeds....and there is no way on God's green earth that I could have obtained a Lotus Twin Cam for what I paid for the F20C I installed.

If I ever get back into this era of Lotus (and it will be a Plus 2 if I do) ideally the car will be needing a new drivetrain and I will oblige by sourcing a Japanese drivetrain with 'adequate' power and inherent reliability.

And a 5/6 speed 'box :D
Slowtus
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:41 pm

Yes I agree - Having experienced an S2000 the Honda F20C and its mating slick 6 speed transmission is a fantastic piece of kit. Honda in general have a well deserved reputation for producing consistently excellent engines. In this day of ever tightening emission and fuel consumption standards the F20C was probably one of the last naturally aspirated screamer engines in a production road car.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 586
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: kwhittle » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:56 pm

I don't think people are interested in swapping the TC. It's the correct engine for the car.

My question was when the Plus 2 was being designed/developed other engines were being considered by the Lotus team of engineers.
So were any alternative engines ever fitted into prototype Plus2 ??
Kevin
kwhittle
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Location: uk

PostPost by: Slowtus » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:31 pm

Not to take away from the OP's original question...which appears to have been answered as fully as people are aware but as mentioned by Crispy, the cost of fettling a decent Twin Cam keeps going up (okay, much better than 'decent' :D )

lotus-parts-f33/186-bhp-zero-miles-steel-twin-cam-for-sale-t43945.html

So, what to do when rebuilding just the engine far exceeds the value of the complete car?

Apologies OP - owe you a beer.
Slowtus
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada

PostPost by: prezoom » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:27 pm

In my case, my Plus2 came with a destroyed engine. Only salvageable parts were the cam cover, Burton cartridge water pump, and the pan. A $500 plus $300 for shipping for an 11k mileage 2L Zetec, about $300 for a flywheel and clutch parts, $200 for a Dunnell Engineering intake manifold and a couple of hundred for enough mandrel bends for the exhaust manifold and a bunch of my time still didn't add up to a new engine block for a twin cam, not including all the other needed parts, think another cylinder head, etc. All told, a little over $2k for an engine with bucket load of torque.
Rob Walker
26-4889
50-0315N
1964 Sabra GT
1964 Elva Mk4T Coupe (awaiting restoration)
1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero, 302,AOD,9",rack and pinion,disc,etc,etc,etc
1954 Nash Healey LeMans Coupe

Lotus is a life sentence with no parole
prezoom
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1163
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Location: Escondido, California

PostPost by: Slowtus » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:54 pm

prezoom wrote:In my case, my Plus2 came with a destroyed engine. Only salvageable parts were the cam cover, Burton cartridge water pump, and the pan. A $500 plus $300 for shipping for an 11k mileage 2L Zetec, about $300 for a flywheel and clutch parts, $200 for a Dunnell Engineering intake manifold and a couple of hundred for enough mandrel bends for the exhaust manifold and a bunch of my time still didn't add up to a new engine block for a twin cam, not including all the other needed parts, think another cylinder head, etc. All told, a little over $2k for an engine with bucket load of torque.


My luggage is in repose. :D
Slowtus
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 142
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Location: Canada
Previous

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests